tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post1267412953134043884..comments2024-02-22T08:58:23.617-05:00Comments on The Session Beer Project™: The DING Question: am I riddling the very fabric of the session beer universe?Lew Brysonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-72034399448817824612012-04-07T12:49:42.186-04:002012-04-07T12:49:42.186-04:00As an ex-BA'er myself, I definitely miss the d...As an ex-BA'er myself, I definitely miss the discussion and perspective that you brought to the forums, mainly because I found your opinions thought out and informed. So, it's nice to see you still out and about in the world of beer.<br /><br />To your point: "...since it was FIRST, it should be respected," I would counter that with the fact that when basketball was invented, the set shot the standard way to score. The set shot can be respected as part of the heritage of the sport. However, a player in the modern game would not be able to rely on it. Respecting a tradition is very different than adhering to it merely for the sake of adhering to it, regardless of its origins or prior legitimacy.<br /><br />Hence, I would agree with Lew's stance that a 4.5% beer could and should be considered a session beer because it's a fair range to accept. People like many of the folks on BA who claim things like "that was a sessionable imperial stout" should be considered foolish for asserting a 12% beer is a session beer. A little gray area is, to most people, appropriate and acceptable and does no disrespect to tradition, or the practice of brewing lower ABV beers.The ExBrewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10945022049329769638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-63429795035873621882012-04-06T16:23:31.649-04:002012-04-06T16:23:31.649-04:00Lew, firstly let me say that I am absolutely delig...Lew, firstly let me say that I am absolutely delighted that you felt the same way about our meeting and my company, as I did about it and yours - if it's not too presumptuous of me, I'd like to think that if we lived closer together we would become firm friends! I hope that we can do that from a distance.<br /><br />Your riposte is eloquent and passionate (as I anticipated), but I am still troubled be at least two things.<br /><br />Firstly the general idea that the ABV is 'moveable'. The 4.0% limit was never arbitrary (separate post on that), BUT since it was FIRST, it should be respected. The problem with monkeying around with it is two-fold. In one instance it is extremely well-documented that when the ABV is moved in this manner, the ABV of beer that people claim to be 'session beer' starts to go up and up and up to the point where I have seen beer in the 8's and 9's quoted as such. This is absolutely preposterous, but I believe is a function of tampering with the original limit.<br /><br />Secondly (somewhat related to the first point) people start to claim/think/believe that session beer is based upon an individual's tolerance level and not the ABV - that's entirely false. ABV is actually the only true definer of session beer, and styles (although it is true only a few are traditional for session beer), are ultimately NOT the defining factor.<br /><br />The second macro-thing that bothers me is the omission of the word "American'. If we were to do that with IPA's and barleywines, those terms/styles would become meaningless. In the case of barleywines, without the word 'English' or 'American' preceding, we go from potentially one of the most enamel stripping, palate destroying, viscous, hop-attack styles known to man, to the sweetest, most syrupy, malt based style in the world in one fell swoop - COMPLETE opposites only related by huge ABV's. In fact, without the geographical designation on the front end of 'barleywine', you are likely to find two people that claim to love barleywines absolutely hating the beer put in front of them if it's from the wrong country! For me, American session beer and English session beer, whilst not styles, fall into the same conflict.<br /><br />I know this will never be resolved between us, and resolution is not what I'm looking for, but I will never back down on this issue because I am 100% right. I've been wrong about plenty before, will be in the future too, but this is too close to my heart.Dinghttp://www.dingsbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-88564374370646372502012-04-06T13:19:54.633-04:002012-04-06T13:19:54.633-04:00Hey, folks: I'm going to Good Friday services ...Hey, folks: I'm going to Good Friday services and then to dinner: don't expect any comments to publish for at least six hours from now. Cheers, happy Easter!Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-23645800015605556702012-04-06T13:19:02.953-04:002012-04-06T13:19:02.953-04:00Truce is okay by me, as long as we don't go hi...Truce is okay by me, as long as we don't go higher than 4.5%; I'll happily drink lower, in any size glass!Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-40233785331481331932012-04-06T12:53:39.716-04:002012-04-06T12:53:39.716-04:00Why empirical? The line has a purpose: encourage g...Why empirical? The line has a purpose: encourage good lower alcohol beer. It's 4.5 instead of 4.27 because a round half-point is easier to get. That's all. And besides, I'm not sure you and Nate are even arguing the same side. <br /><br />As for the rest of your arguments...sorry, but you sound like Andy Crouch arguing against session beer, and you both sound like someone from 1993 arguing against craft beer. "That stuff isn't here because it doesn't sell." Turn it on its head: it doesn't sell because it isn't here. "People in America don't drink that way." Well, yeah, <i>you</i> don't. And that's a tiny percentage of drinkers; light beer drinkers drink <i>exactly</i> like that; maybe they just want something else. I hung out with a bunch of craft distillers Tuesday afternoon, and we were all drinking 3.7% mild and 5.3% bitter all afternoon, one after another. If it's there and it's good, people will drink it. Bitter American is killing for 21st Amendment; Levitation is selling for Stone. Brewers are making more and more lower ABV and cask beer in America (maybe because there are more local brewers). Things are changing; that's what this whole arena is about, change.Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-7552612723044094202012-04-06T12:43:30.023-04:002012-04-06T12:43:30.023-04:00Perhaps we could call a truce on the basis that an...Perhaps we could call a truce on the basis that an American pint (at 473ml) is that bit smaller than our UK pint (568ml). Consequently, a pint of US 4.5% is likely to be as sessionable as a UK 4.0%, so long as no-one's rushing ;-)<br /><br />Though the very fact I've used metric and not imperial to define pint sizes may spark its own debate...John Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15471796457374078158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-63899126081252635752012-04-06T12:11:07.680-04:002012-04-06T12:11:07.680-04:00Nate totally beat me to my point. Whenever you dra...Nate totally beat me to my point. Whenever you draw lines in the sand like that they're indeed arbitrary lines. Although the question neither Ding nor Lew has really answered is how they came up with those numbers. Not just because "it's tradition" or playing averages or whatever. There has to be something a little more empirical behind it. <br /><br />Americans are much heavier people than the English, so we don't get quite as drunk as fast off 4.5% as they would. You could also factor in cultural changes, etc. <br /><br />I think the average American [craft] beer drinker could put away a few bottles or pints of 4.5% as easily as the average British publican can with 4%. <br /><br />The irony is American craft beer drinkers really aren't into sessioning beers. When we go to pubs we like to mix it up. A night out might consist of an IPA, stout, wheat, and maybe even a lager (or a cider). I frequent a lot of craft beer-only bars and I've never seen someone sip the same beer for hours on end or even similar beers of similar low ABVs for hours on end (unless you count the people that drink Bud Light while watching three football games in a row)<br /><br />So "session day" or "session beer" in America is, IMO, a bit of a futile exercise. Brewers really aren't making all that much low ABV beer because it travels poorly and has a short shelf life compared to even your average pale ale. Also the reason why real ale across the board is a rare commodity here. I do enjoy cask beer, but it's so hard to find. So it's a chicken-and-the-egg question: is cask ale so hard to find because no one brews it or does no one brews it because they know it will be so hard to find?Chad9976https://www.blogger.com/profile/01203466949698633001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-53211333515775618672012-04-06T11:46:57.429-04:002012-04-06T11:46:57.429-04:00Yes, if you want a cheap night out then go out wit...Yes, if you want a cheap night out then go out with DING, he insisted on buying all my beers and the CEO of LoneRider brewing too!<br />Secretly I think DING wants quality lower ABV beers so he can lose weight without giving up the taste ;)<br />Twitter:@Stuart_ArnoldStuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14971226599382641757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-53198625226312960322012-04-06T10:30:54.948-04:002012-04-06T10:30:54.948-04:00Isn't *any* number chosen for what is sessiona...Isn't *any* number chosen for what is sessionable considered arbitrary? I also admire DING's passion and all but, unlike the freezing point of water or the speed of light, there is no scientific constant for determining what qualifies as a session beer. 4.0% is just as arbitrary as 3.9% or 4.2%. It seems like a trying to generate an issue where there really isn't one.The ExBrewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10945022049329769638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-88815407909154807122012-04-06T10:24:33.298-04:002012-04-06T10:24:33.298-04:00Lew, I posted in DING's blog a few months back...Lew, I posted in DING's blog a few months back about my position that Session Beer ABV is less than standard. What is standard? Depends on the country, but in the US it is clearly defined. Here's my post:<br /><br />"In the US, 5% ABV has been the “standard” measure for a 12 oz serving of beer. This is well defined by the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#standDrink). So, if 5% is “standard”, session is certainly lower than standard, and 4.5% is a good starting point. In the UK, the separation between standard and session is 0.1% – I thought the US consumer could use a little more spacing in ABV, and took the lead of Lew Bryson on this."Chris, Notch Brewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14609006769895863282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-951352146709932219.post-55734084612746721302012-04-06T09:55:36.415-04:002012-04-06T09:55:36.415-04:00I hope things go well with your session day.
As I...I hope things go well with your session day.<br /><br />As I mentioned the other day (see mu url if you're bothered) I'm not sure the whole discussion is merited. There is a thing to decide how strong the beer is. It's the abv! If you're getting into arguments as to whether the beer is session beer or not you are detracting from the beer itself, just enjoy drinking it!Garethhttp://beeradvice.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/session-beer.htmlnoreply@blogger.com