Showing posts with label session IPA. Show all posts
Showing posts with label session IPA. Show all posts

Wednesday, January 27, 2016

SESSION BEER DAY 2016 IS ON!

As I've noted elsewhere, I'm back writing about beer and whiskey as a freelancer. That means more time to do Session Beer Project stuff, which means Session Beer Day 2016 is on!

Session beer has made a huge impact on American beer drinking in the past five years. We've made a difference, and people are drinking lower-alcohol beers, and loving them. Brewers are making them and succeeding financially; not all, but there are some notable successes, like all-session beer gypsy brewer Notch, which is going to be opening a real brick and mortar brewery this spring, shortly after Session Beer Day; congratulations! Yards continues to sell a LOT of their non-hoppy Brawler. Victory always has at least a dry stout and a delicious bitter at their taproom. Hell, Yuengling Lager is a session beer; that's pretty damned successful. (There's session elsewhere, of course: I just happen to be in Pennsylvania.)




So...has the Project succeeded? Do we take a victory lap and happily shut down, liter mugs in hand, well-done, thou good and faithful servant?

No, we do not!

The continued success of session beer in America — and yes, in the world, I'd argue — is threatened by two things. First, ABV creep, the same thing that got us here in the first place: a slow, persistent rise in the alcohol content of craft beers, leading to our call to offer some session beers as a real choice for beer drinkers faced with an increasingly 7+% tap array. We saw success there, but inevitably, ABV creep set in.

"Session beer" has become a trend and a desirable label, which makes it subject to overuse, much like "IPA." It is successfully being applied — as a marketing tool — to increasingly strong beers that are still under 6% but range as high as 5.5%, sometimes even more. Brewers may simply call these beers "session!" and move on, they may justify it with the lame (and somewhat worrisome) "that's 'session strength' for us!", but the fact is...yes, that seemingly small gap between 4.5% and 5.5% is significant. For one thing, well, this, Joe Stange's exposition on how drinking 5% beer will get you drunk significantly quicker than 4% beer. For another, 4.5% is supposed to be an upper limit, a ceiling, not a target! If brewers had some serious session skills, they could make deliciously drinkable beers at 4% and lower, not pussyfoot around at 4.8% and say, "Well, that's almost 4.5%, and it's really hoppy, so what's the difference?"

And that's the second thing: really hoppy. Like the rest of the non-mainstream beer category, session beer has been plowed under by the hop lovers: "session IPA" is an inexorable binding of two of the hottest brands that has crushed the possibilities for variety in this budding category, where the promise for variety was so sweet. American brewers have played it safe, gone with baby IPA as a sure thing, sticking with hops as the only tool in the box when it comes to customer enticement and ignoring the fact that the session beers of the rest of the world rely on all the ingredients of beer to make great lower-alcohol everyday drinking beers. It's a farce, nothing less, that American "craft brewing" continues to trumpet the self-congratulatory message of their vaunted innovation when their best idea for making a good, enjoyable lower alcohol beer was simply to make a lower alcohol version of the category best-seller, followed by a Cascading rush as everyone else then raced to imitate it. In case you didn't get it, let me note: that's about as innovative as the big brewers who made a lower calorie, lower ABV clone of their light lagers, called this even-lighter lager "light beer," and then raced to imitate each other. Is that what you've become?

Before "session beer" becomes a 5% IPA, I'm going to propose a challenge to the brewers who are innovative, who have the will and the skill to make something different and delicious for Session Beer Day 2016. This year:


Show Us Your Session Smarts!

If you're a brewer interested in participating, it's simple. The "session IPA" has taken over the American session beer category, when it was supposed to be a meta-category, a category that would include many different types of beer at 4.5% and less. Session beer awareness is supposed to be about increasing choices for the beer drinker...and we largely got one extra choice out of it.

Snap out of it! Take this opportunity to show off your skills and make a session-strength beer, 4.5% or less (you can do it; you can go lower!), that doesn't rely on shouting hops for all its character. We get it, brewers know how to make a light, wildly hoppy beer: EVERY brewer's doing it.

Be different! On April 7th, show us some real innovation, or some real skills to make a beautiful example of a classic session-strength beer that stands apart from the herd of 'monkey-see, monkey-do' dialed-down IPAs. Work with specialty malts or non-barley grains, a different yeast, light souring, smoke, herbs or spices, wood-aging, or sure, a light hand with the right hops, a pale ale, there's a thought. Make it tasty but not crushing, make it something "more-ish," as Michael Jackson used to say. Show the world you're not a monkey, thumb your nose at the "me too me too" crowd, and who knows...maybe find your next big seller.

Lots and lots and lots of great tasting beers!
If you accept the challenge, post a comment here, or send me an email (sessionbeerday@gmail.com), and let us know who you are, and where you'll be representing that beer on Session Beer Day, April 7. We'll help get the word out.

Bar owners/managers, beer stores, and yes, beer drinkers: we've got ideas for you too. The brewers need more lead time. Your suggestions for a successful Session Beer Day are coming up.

And if you feel threatened by this, or think that beer must be hoppy or else, or that only big beers have flavor, or that "session beer" is a fad that's over...your opinions are always welcome. Just try to keep them civil. Thanks.

Wednesday, July 16, 2014

What's Your Problem?

Jason and Todd Alstrom put an editorial in the latest issue of Beeradvocate magazine titled "The Problem with Session Beers in the US." They've had a passive-aggressive stance toward session beers from the early days, and this piece fits neatly into that. Because they have such a large bully-pulpit with the magazine, I felt I should at least respond. Because I only see ONE problem the way that they do; the rest of their problems are manufactured, questionable, or just plain wrong.

Pricing. This is a horse they've beaten well past expiration: if session beers are lower alcohol, they should be less expensive. Other people say it too. But we've had that discussion, and the truth is, lower alcohol beers don't really cost that much less to make or sell. Materials -- hops, malt, spices -- are only part of a beer's cost; there's energy, labor, transport, taxes, promotion, facility costs, debt service... If a pint of 4.5% pilsner is a good pint, a good-tasting beer, why should it be cheaper than a 6.5% IPA? Because it cost a nickel less to make? Or because it has less alcohol? I thought craft beer was all about flavor. If it's about the alcohol, well...why are you drinking it, again? Maybe you ought to think about that. In any case, I'd certainly encourage any brewpub operator or bar manager to think about dropping pints a buck just to encourage the multiple sales sessions are about, but it's not about session being a somehow "lesser" beer. We don't buy that, no matter what the price.

USA! Americans don't understand what session beer is, they say; we're not the UK (this ignores the session beers in Belgium and the Czech Republic, of course, but we'll let that go). Our drinking culture is different. Well...the biggest selling beer in America is Bud Light. It's 4.2% ABV. We get lower alcohol beer; the session beers we're supporting are lower alcohol too, only they have a lot more flavor. What's so hard to understand? We don't need to be told a story, as the Alstroms suggest. Judging from the success of beers like Founders All Day IPA, all we have to do is get a choice. And boys? Seven bucks for a "faux-pint" of ANY "beer that might be good" is more about the problem with craft beer, not session beer.

A Session What? There's no definition of a session beer, they say. Well, we're working on it. I think that the BeerAdvocate 5% definition isn't definitive enough; I like 4.5% better, and 4.0% is good too. But look at how long it took to define "craft beer." Oops...the Brewers Association is apparently still working on that one. Doesn't seem to be hurting sales, though. Yeah. Another non-problem.

Boring! I'll quote them here, because I agree with a little bit of this...but not much. "There's a serious lack of creativity when it comes to session beers. It's either an attempt at an old beer style, or a weak, watery failure. Even worse, some fool (or genius) created the 'Session IPA,' and it's taking over the session beer category thanks to bandwagoning brewers releasing hop water into the market in order to capture twice the hype."

This really is a 'Wow, where to begin' moment. "An attempt at an old beer style?" What, like much of "craft brewing?" Pale ale, porter, Pilsner, imperial stout, milk stout, Baltic porter, and yes, even IPA: all attempts at 'old beer styles.' What's so bad about that? We're adding mild, bitter, grisette, and Berliner Weisse to the list, oh horrors! If there are weak, watery failures, well, honey, there are overhopped, unbalanced monsters out there too (and they'll cost you a lot more, despite your fear of overpriced session beer).
Then there's the one spot where I agree with them: "Session IPA." It is taking over session beer, and it's about making money, and it's about a lack of real creativity and the worst kind of monkey-see monkey-do brewing. But...in a time where we have IPA, DIPA, TIPA, Black IPA, Red IPA, White IPA, Wheat IPA, Rye IPA, Blue and Green IPAs, and perhaps IPAs as yet undreamt of just waiting to be born...why single out Session IPA? Again, this is a failure of craft beer, not session beer. If the Alstroms really want to be muckrakers, and call for a better brighter world of beer, they need to step up and tackle the real problems.
Snobs. And this is the one that baffles me. "...we find that many proponents of session beer are snobs." Really? Where on earth do you find that? The people I know who are proponents of session beer are mostly just trying to get a couple taps, a few more choices. Complain about people who don't get session beer? Well, yeah, if those are the people who are keeping session beers off the taps! That's not snobbery, that's the same kind of frustration we felt back in the late 1980s when no one wanted to sell craft beer. Just put some on, we'll drink it! Sure enough...Founders makes a lower alcohol beer; it's now their flagship. Odell makes a session seasonal; sells so much they take it year-round. Brewers are finding that if they make a good session beer, it's going to sell well. Of course it is: it's a good beer.

They conclude by saying that these problems have to change for session beers to be truly accepted in the US. Well...okay. I mean, it's not like it's happening already, without the Alstroms' permission or anything. Heh. Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha!

Sorry. In the meantime, tell me: what's it going to take for sour beers to be "truly accepted" in the US? Because while I love 'em, I think there's a much longer list of why they ain't going mainstream anytime soon. Gonna write that editorial next issue, guys?

Monday, April 7, 2014

Why I called Sierra Nevada "wieners" about their Nooner Session IPA

Heh, heh. It says Nooner. 4.8%? Really? Come on, SN! Can't get it down to 4.5? Wieners...

That's what I put up on Untappd* two days ago as my "review" of Sierra Nevada's new "session IPA," Nooner. If I felt really bad about it, or that I was out of line, I'd apologize. This is Sierra Nevada, after all; a brewery and a founder, Ken Grossman, which I honestly revere(and still do), one of a small pantheon of people and companies who can honestly be said to have started or substantially advanced what we generally call craft brewing.

And on Saturday, I called them "wieners."

I don't intend to apologize, because I think I'm right. But I do intend to explain, beyond saying, 'well, you know, I was pretty well into the day at that point, pints of draft, some whiskey, and maybe I was a little jovial.' Which I was, but I stand with Papa Hemingway on this: 'Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.' Or not. Yeah, I had been drinking, but I'm sticking by what I said, and here's why.

"Session IPA" is becoming a selling point, but it's an ill-defined "style" (and yes, that word bugs me some days, but let's work with it for now) at best. Look at the Smuttynose Bouncy House I just posted about earlier today: 4.3%, and they sidestepped the "session IPA" label. Their beer is a hoppy pale ale, but that's not why they didn't call it a session IPA. They did it because they thought it might be a played-out trend in a couple years.

I agree, and that's why, as I said in an interview with the good people at Craft Beer Cellar, the 4.5% bright line is important:
...not so much because of the alcohol. It’s because of the worth of the label. If “session beer” just means “as little as 0.1% ABV less than ‘regular beer’”, it starts to lose meaning. Session beer has to be significantly less than a regular beer in alcohol content. 4.5% is 10% less alcohol than 5.0%; that’s significant. I want it to mean something, and to continue to mean something, so I’m going to be picky.
We weren’t picky about what “craft beer” meant — Is it about who makes it? What it’s made of? What it tastes like? — or what an IPA is (it’s apparently anything someone chooses to call an IPA), and those terms are losing value. I don’t want that to happen to session beer, so I’m using every bit of influence I’ve earned over 20 years of writing about beer to try to fence it off. Making 4.5% a bright line and calling any brewer — like Sierra Nevada, even — to task who calls their beer “session” when it’s more than that, is part of the job. I’ll take flak. There will be backlash. Okay. It’s worth it. This was thankless in the beginning; I can handle it. 

Maybe I wouldn't have called Sierra Nevada "wieners" if I hadn't been drinking, but...hey, they called it 'Nooner' first! So I'm not completely off there.

I'm actually getting more concerned about the lame groupthink and sheep mentality represented by "session IPA," especially since it's Sierra Nevada. I really expected something better from a brewer that has produced an iconic, leading Pale Ale, Barleywine, American Stout. I expected a brilliant Bitter, a fearless Mild. But we got a following beer from a brewer that's a leader. I expect better.

I expect better from the whole industry. I should be happy on Session Beer Day, and to some extent, I am! It's great, we're seeing a LOT more session strength beers from notable brewers, and more and more of them at brewpubs. But...an unending parade of "session IPA"?  

GOD DAMN IT, AMERICAN BREWERS! You're BETTER than this! And I'm not just talking about session. American craft brewing has become a pathetic nation of followers. Look, a sour sold, let's make one! Look, session IPA sold, let's make one! Look, limited edition beers sold, let's make one! I weep for you. Truly. Show some balls, at least come up with your own name, like "fractional IPA."


I think it's significant that the brewer who's become something of the standard-bearer for the Session Beer Project, Chris Lohring at Notch, said this about his own session-strength IPA, Left of the Dial:
So, after all that, how does it taste? Like an IPA, but without any cloying sweetness and booze that fatigues and gets in the way of multiple pints and extended good times. Call it a Session IPA if you want, but to me it’s simply the IPA I’d like to drink, and I think Notch fans would like to drink.
Which makes me think of his Notch Pils; it's not a good session pilsner, it's a good pilsner. So if your beer is a good IPA, call it an IPA. If it's a pale ale...say so. And if it's a bitter, well, God bless you.

Here's hoping for a better selection next year. Now get out there: still plenty of time to get some rounds in. That's where I'm headed. Cheers! Drink small, drink often!


*And thanks so much for not dropping a Session Beer Day badge on us this year, Untappd. I know, I know, we don't have the money to pay you, and those badges cost you...no, wait, they don't cost anything, they're virtual. What the hell, Untappd?

Thursday, February 13, 2014

Betting on "session IPA"

Here's a post from a big beer marketing guy who thinks session IPA is going to be a big winner. Check it out; he makes some great points, and the ad campaigns he mentions were some of the most memorable and most effective ones of the era. This whole thing could have huge legs...and maybe lead to something other than session-strength IPAs...

Wednesday, July 24, 2013

Be Nice

That, roughly, is me, adorning the "new beer window" at Tired Hands Brewing in Ardmore, PA. Jean Broillet IV, the owner/brewer, inspired by...something, named his latest beer, a session IPA (Jean makes a lot of hoppy beers (really wonderfully aromatically hoppy beers), a lot of session beers, and a lot of funky beers), Be Nice. It clocks in at 4.2%, and he describes it as a reddish session IPA. When someone -- rightly -- asked if that wasn't the same thing as a pale ale, he responded that it drinks like a DIPA, and he didn't think anyone would guess that it was as low in ABV as it is.

I guess I'm going to have to make the trip out to Ardmore and try this one. Only...not today, as I'm without a car. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe Friday. I mean, I don't see any way I can not have one (or four) of these, right?! Thanks, Jean, pretty cool!

Monday, July 22, 2013

Let the Competition Begin!

Yeah, that post just below? Where I said I encouraged lower ABV competition to Founder's All Day IPA?





It's here! Regional powerhouse craft brewer Boulevard just announced their new Pop-Up Session IPA, and yes, it's at 4.2% ABV.

Haven't had this yet -- never been able to get on Boulevard's press samples list -- but it sounds good:

A blend of our base pale, Marris Otter, and amber malts creates a simple, yet adequate malt backbone that allows Mosaic, Cascade, Amarillo, Citra, and Centennial hops to shine with bright, fruity, citrus notes. 


Here we go! This is officially a hot category!

A Landmark...and an Issue: how hard-line do we need to be?

Session Beer? Or not?
On Friday, Brewbound reported that Michigan brewer Founders had acknowledged that the relatively new All Day IPA (one of the exploding number of so-called "session IPAs," well-noted here by Notch Brewing's Chris Lohring) introduced as a seasonal in March, had achieved year-round status and, by a solid margin, established itself as the brewery's best-selling beer. The Brewbound story said that:
Through the end of June, Founders had sold over 130,000 case equivalents (CE’S) of All Day IPA since March 1. Sales of its next best-selling beer, the year-round Centennial IPA, have only barely eclipsed 102,000 CE’s.
Well, boom! Founders CEO Mike Stevens expanded on that, saying that he expects All Day IPA to account for nearly 40% of the brewery's total production in 2014, that the folks at Founders "are looking at this brand as a category leader in the session ale category,” and, significantly, "even though it’s called ‘All Day,’ the most important words on that label are ‘session ale.’...It’s an underserved category and All Day isn’t taking away from what is really great about well-made craft beer.” The All Day label illo is now the opening illo on the Founders website, even.

Which is causing me some seriously mixed emotions. Because while I'm thoroughly excited that a brewery celebrated for its big beers -- Devil Dancer, Breakfast Stout, Dirty Bastard, Double Trouble -- brewed a lower-strength beer and found that it sold like mad... That beer is 4.7% ABV, just over the 4.5% ABV upper limit the Session Beer Project recognizes as "session beer." ARGH!
 
So do we celebrate? Or do we tear out our hair and weep and moan, because "session beer" is tagged on a 4.7%er? Do I say, "Oh, hell, it was just an arbitrary limit anyway...yeah, it's session beer, and WE WIN!" Is this the end of the session beer universe?

Well, no, it's not the end of the world, and no, I'm not going to tear out my hair. I already said that, here. And I'm going to celebrate a little bit, because of that "the most important words on that label are ‘session ale.’" quote. But yeah, I'm gonna hold the line on this. I'd rather see All Day IPA at 4.5% or less; sure, I would, if they're going to put "session ale" on the label. 

And I'm pretty sure we will see very successful beers at 4.5% and less, and fairly soon. If this IS as hot a category as Stevens seems to think it is -- and I think he's right, been thinking that for a while now -- other brewers are going to be jumping in -- and they are; as Lohring says, it's easier hop on a train than it is to build one -- and some of them are going to differentiate themselves by getting great flavor out of beers that are under 4.5%. And they're going to serve them in larger glasses, and they're going to price them lower (not because they're significantly cheaper to make, but they may see that as a marketing cost), and they're going to change craft beer. Really, I think there's a real chance of that.

So I'm not going to celebrate All Day IPA as a session beer -- though I'm happy to drink it -- but I'm going to take its success as a harbinger. And I'm going to encourage other brewers to kick its ass by making a beer that's just as good, just as interesting...and under 4.6%. I know they can do it; they
already are.

Thursday, March 28, 2013

Notch Lays It Down: Left of the Dial IPA

The first thing I'm going to say about Notch's new beer is this: you can, if you want, skip reading this post and just go straight to what Chris Lohring has to say about Left of The Dial IPA right here. Because he nails the whole "session IPA" discussion, and explains why he brewed this beer, and what it is and what it means, much better than I could.

But...I'd like to pile on a bit. I'm totally jazzed that he's done this beer, that it's clearly a statement, that it's coming out the week of Session Beer Day, and that he's doing it with such a great name, the sloganish phrase he's been using for great tasting session beer for over a year now. The only downside is that I probably won't get any, because Notch is still very much an eastern Massachusetts phenomenon, and I'm not getting up there anymore.

Why a session-strength IPA? Well, like I told a writer who was interviewing me yesterday (about beer selection strategies for beer bars' taps), IPA is not going away. Someone or other has been predicting the fade of IPA since the mid-1990s, and IPA just thumbs its nose and keeps growing. Betting against IPA, I told her, was like betting against vodka. Ain't happening. So roll with it. That's just what Chris is doing, because it's going to sell like mad.

Or maybe not: read this:
So, after all that, how does it taste? Like an IPA, but without any cloying sweetness and booze that fatigues and gets in the way of multiple pints and extended good times. Call it a Session IPA if you want, but to me it’s simply the IPA I’d like to drink, and I think Notch fans would like to drink. It may be the only time you see this beer, because it broke the bank, so I hope you enjoy!

Yo, up in Boston! Drink my share!

Tuesday, March 5, 2013

Naked Brewing Carpe Noctem Black IPA

Carpe Noctem

I'm not nuts about "black IPA." I did a round of "robust porter" judging at the GABF a couple years ago, and I don't see a lot of difference between the two: a lot of hops, a lot of black, burnt malt, and a fair amount of booze. After tasting 11 of them, my palate was shot, felt like it had been scrubbed with a wire grill brush. A recently-used wire grill brush.

So I wasn't eager to try Carpe Noctem from local Naked Brewing Co., since it was a black IPA and a "session" IPA, which drives me a little nuts...but you know, there it was, on tap at the Hulmeville Inn, and I was driving, and it's only 3.9%...

Glad I dove in. Carpe Noctem has a hoppy, dry cocoa-tinged nose, and a smooth mouthful of well-balanced malt and hops, without that wicked burnt character, and a bitter finish. Nothing's really spiky, or aggressive, which is probably why the IPA-crazies aren't going nuts for it, but I liked it. Had more of it, too. Keep an eye out: they're spreading all over Pennsylvania; how, I'm not sure, but I hope they do well.

Friday, March 1, 2013

Session Beer Day is Coming!

Much to the distress of the Big Beer Cabal (and to Uncle Jack), the Session Beer Project is not dead! I've just been dealing with other matters, and happily watching session beer cruise along on autopilot. But our newly christened annual Session Beer Day -- April 7 -- is coming up, and it's time to beat the drums.

Consider the drums beaten...

First, I have our first Session Beer Day event to announce: Bulls Head Pub in Lititz, PA, home pub of Paul Pendyck, who has brought cask beer engines to many bars and brewpubs in America, will be celebrating by putting 4.5% and under beers on all their taps (including the beer engines) for the whole day, and selling them for $4.50 a glass! (And Paul uses imperial pints for most of those beers!) What's more, with Paul's permission, I am challenging as many session beer-friendly pubs as possible to match this event! Plenty of time to promote it, plenty of time to get people fired up. Show your session beer love!

Lemon zest & peppercorns
What else? How about some great new session beers? Wachusett is releasing their new Light IPA in cans in March, to join their year-round line-up: 4% ABV with 37 IBUs (and only 121 calories, if you care). Victory has a new spring seasonal, Swing Session Saison, at 4.5%, that launches today in the Philadelphia market. The Lion has a new formulation of their Stegmaier Pale Ale at 4%, and it's crisp and zesty in the mouth and rushing with hop aroma (out soon, I got some samples). There's a whole LINE of session beers coming from Mavericks, under 4% and aimed at the active life (no reason Michelob Ultra should have that to themselves, right?). And of course, speaking of entire lines of session beers, I know Chris Lohring will have new beers from Notch Brewing's line of great, tasty, and traditional session beers of all types (Saison has gone year-round, BTW!).

What else? Well, if you use Untappd, we need to ask them politely to set up a Session Beer Day badge. You can email them here, or leave a note on their Facebook page. Something like: "Can you please repeat last year's Session Beer Day Badge for Session Beer Day on April 7? Thanks!"

Any journalists, bloggers, Tweeters, movers and shakers: please spread the word. April 7 is a day to celebrate beer in big glasses, all-day beers, great beer with great flavor and low alcohol. I'm available for interviews or quotes, but the day is about the beer!

And...I have realized that I will not be in the U.S. on Session Beer Day. I'll be in Scotland on a whisky research trip, but you can bet I'll find a few glasses of session cask that day: Cairngorms, or Deuchars, or something small and local, I hope. Run with it, we're going to do this!

I'll be posting more this month. Get excited, we're gonna drink lots of beer on April 7!

Monday, April 4, 2011

Another "session IPA"

Just got a press release from North Peak Brewing in Traverse City, Michigan about their new "Session India Pale Ale" they call Wanderer. It's...well, I'll let them describe it:
"...a wonderfully-refreshing Session IPA, brewed with locally-grown hops on Old Mission Peninsula in Traverse City. Session IPA is an exciting new style, balanced with malt and hop characters with a clean finish. Hopped with Perle, Willamette, Centennial and Citra that give it a citrus and pine finish, Wanderer is rounded out with a generous amount of dry-hopping with Citra hops to fill the nose to give it a light, clean and stimulating body. This combination of full-hop flavor and lower alcohol gives Wanderer a wonderful drinkability, allowing the craft beer drinker to have multiple beers, within a reasonable time period or “session.”"


Hmmm...not sure about that "reasonable" time period! But otherwise? These guys seem to get it, even though I'm guessing it's probably over-hopped for my tastes. I'm seeing more of these hoppy session beers; smart brewers trying to give the people what they want. 


Wonder what they charge for it...?